Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

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Re: Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

Postby pitted bore » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:04 pm

BamBam- (& Hoot and others)-
The reason for cooling the case promptly is to prevent heat "traveling" to the case head, which can soften it to the point of uselessness. When fired, a soft case head may rupture, an event that can be exciting for several milliseconds (or perhaps for several days as the ophthamologist picks particles of brass out of your cornea if you weren't wearing safety glasses)

For a pretty good review of annealing techniques, including why's and wherefore's, this essay is pretty good:
The Art and Science of Annealing

For the last dozen years I have used an easy method of annealing that makes it really unlikely to overheat the brass. The technique was described by John Barsness in Handloader magazine, #218, Aug-Sept 2002. The article is also available online: Factors In Accuracy, Part II: Handloads, by John Barsness The short paragraph on annealing is about half-way down the web page. The "Fred Barker" referenced in the paragraph is a metallurgist friend of the writer.

The method works and is really inexpensive. The only disadvantages I've found is that it is slower than trying to use a propane tourch, and that after a long session of several dozen cases, one's fingertips can get a bit sore.

Good luck.
--Bob
Last edited by pitted bore on Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

Postby Hoot » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:44 pm

If you're heating the mouths so hot that you have to quench the case to prevent the annealing from traveling below where you want it, then you have already overheated the mouth. A lot of people overheat their mouths. Never trust YouTube. There was a nice video made by a fellow who heated the mouths and shoulders until they began to glow red-orange, then he dropped them in water. The comments section after his video were less than complimentary. Moral, a good video maker does not necessarily make a good metallurgist. :roll:

I know a smith in northern MN who is nationally acclaimed. His specialty is wildcat calibers and he anneals a lot of cases for his customers. He holds his cases in his fingers as he is heating the other end. When the mouth end is the right temperature, he sits them on a dry cookie pan to cool. Like him, I use a small, focused flame tip to control the heat rate. Definitely don't want to use a swamping big blow torch like the kind you use for sweating pipes. By the time you see that you have reached the proper temperature down the case, it will overshoot at the mouth before you can redirect the flame.

Here's a good rule of thumb. If the mouth is dark blue-black by the time the straw color is down to where you want it to be, you are using too much heat. Some times you can mitigate the power of the torch tip by adjusting the distance from it to the case. Takes some experimenting to produce cases that all have the same degree of annealing. Uniformity is important if you want your shots to behave uniformly.

Case head growth is cumulative and can not be resized out. By the time most of my cases could benefit from annealing, the case head growth has reached a degree where I don't want to use the cases anymore anyway. Typically around 5 reloads if you aren't really pumping them up, but as little as 3 reloads if you are. Lately, after resizing a batch of brass, I clean off the lube and immediately try thunking each of them. If they seize up before thunking, then they go into the scrap bucket. No point waiting until you already went through the trouble of prepping and loading them to discover during the thunk test that the cases had excessive case head growth. That's a lot of wasted effort.

Hoot
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Re: Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

Postby BamBam » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:31 pm

I can't seem to get the "Art and Science" link to work.

Hoot - I like the idea of holding each. I have done a lot of heat treating, just never on brass.

You must have seen the same vid I did. I knew he was going way too hot, but the sudden extreme quench threw up a ton of red flags. I did not bother to read the comments but I can imagine what some were from people who know a lot more than I do about brass.

The one idea I did have was to put the brass in a shallow pan of water that goes about 1/3 up the case and then use the proper heat and just let them air cool.

I have never Annealed my 5.56, or my 300Blk as LC brass lasts and the primer pockets seem to be what gives out first with my loads, and they can be easily replaced. I doubt I will ever need to do it on my 450b either, I just like learning new things the proper way even if I'm not going to do it.
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Re: Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

Postby pitted bore » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:40 pm

BamBam wrote:I can't seem to get the "Art and Science" link to work. ...

BamBam-
It should be fixed now. Post again if not OK.
Thanks for reporting it.
--Bob
edited to repair spelling error
Last edited by pitted bore on Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

Postby BamBam » Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:33 pm

pitted bore wrote:
BamBam wrote:I can't seem to get the "Art and Science" link to work. ...

BamBam-
It's should be fixed now. Post again if not OK.
Thanks for reporting it.
--Bob


It works now, excellent reading.

Thanks Bob !
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Re: Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

Postby Hoot » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:59 pm

Not to beat a dead horse
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but, if you watch the video of the mechanized annealer processing 6mm Dasher cases in the Art of Annealing article, the cases ride around the carousel after leaving the flame for 30 seconds before dropping into the chute. If they needed quenching in water to prevent heat migration further down the case than you wanted, after 30 seconds, it would be too late to drop them into a water filled container, assuming that's what they are dropping into at the end of their cycle.
Water quenching is just to make you feel better about what you are doing, unless you are already applying too much heat to the mouths and shoulders,for too long.

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Re: Range Report: Annealed Cases [Finished]

Postby m113103 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:28 am

For users that want to do without buying or experimenting with flames. http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=177
:D
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