Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

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Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby Hoot » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:32 am

Ah, spring is in the air in the Land of the Wind Chill Factor. Like the swallows returning to Capistrano, my butt once again returned to the chairs on the local Rifle Range. For the first outing, I was testing a powder that has come up in discussion recently, though it's not new. The powder is one of Alliant's Power Pro line. The 300 Mag Pistol or 300MP for short. The hope was to find a powder that bridged between the H110/Lil Gun/W296 class of propellents and the slower AA1680, in service with 450b bullets weighing 300gr and more. I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get 1680 to perform efficiently with the 300gr Hornady SST/ML, XTP Mag and Speer DeepCurl/Gold Dot bullets and just could not get it to turn on enough before running out of barrel. One experiment, I even loaded the Gold Dots so that they jammed into the lands and they would still not get 1680 cooking enough to extract the power and ensuing velocity it is capable of. The faster powders work with the 300s, but they suffer from the opposite problem of turning on too fast when pushing a heavy load. They also tend to not use up much case capacity before reaching maximum safe pressure loads.

Unfortunately, there is no support for 300MP in the current release of QuickLoad, so determining a starting point was a matter of translating load data, which does exist for the 460 S&W to our 450b. They are very similar calibers. Not identical, but close enough to serve as a starting reference. Alliant does have a recommended load for the 460 S&W pushing the 300gr Gold Dot. Given the slightly higher case capacity of the 460 S&W, I took that load and interpolated it downward to a starting load of 36gr.

Since I only had 18 pulled Gold Dots to work with, I went with 3-shot strings ranging from 36 to 41gr. I had already determined that a 450b case would hold 42gr of 300MP uncompressed to come close to the base of a 300 GD seated to where the cannelure is almost buried in the mouth (2.06 COL). I wanted to utilize the native taper crimp die that comes with the Hornady 450b set, since not many members have the modified Lee FCD die, which has been chronicled elsewhere. There is more to be accomplished both with higher charges of 300MP, different seating depths and different crimping techniques.

Here's the resulting performance that should serve as a characterization of 300MP for future efforts. One note though. Since I was forced to use pulled down bullets, with resulting reduction in diameter from having been once seated in cases already, I elected to use a more aggressive taper crimp of .474 into the cannelure as measured at the very lip of the mouth. Had these been new bullets, I would have used .475 into the cannelure.

Image

The resulting groups, which were not the thrust of this range visit show typical results I obtained with Gold Dots last year. I get better groups using the similar 300gr Hornady XTP Mag. Natchez has them in stock at the moment for around $17.88/box.

Image

The heavier the projectile, the greater the vertical change in POI as a result of change in velocity. I had originally sighted in my load workup scope using the standard 250gr FTX over 38gr of Lil Gun and the 300s dropped substantially as you can see in the first (36gr) target. I adjusted the scope for the subsequent targets, but you can see the groups climb as I increase the velocity by as little as 50-75fps. The lighter, higher BC, bullets I normally frequent do not respond so radically to variations in velocity.

Much like other bullet weights in this barrel, there is a tendency for the groups to tighten up as the velocity and resulting RPMs increase. That is also more pronounced with the heavier bullets. As you can see, the groups are just starting to tighten up as the velocity goes above 2000 fps. These 300 Gold Dots scream for more velocity. You're all probably getting tired of reading this, but I have little to no interest in bullets above 275gr. There is more to be learned from using 300MP with the heavier bullets, but I'm loathe to spend money on more 300 grainers. Some times I pursue weights outside my interest zone just for the sake of buying some education. I may pick up some more 300s to continue where I left off, as it is always interesting to ply the waters of a new powder and to justify having bought a whole pound of it. ;)

-To be continued-

Hoot

ETA: The 35 gr load data came from foulers, so there's no group picture
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby Hoot » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:13 pm

It turns out that Natchez has both the 300 XTP Mag and the 300 DeepCurl/Gold Dots in stock if anyone is looking to pick some up. Interestingly, despite being the more accurate of the two, the XTP Mags cost less than the DeepCurl/Gold Dots. BTW, I combine their names since Speer has the same P/N for both. I suspect that the DeepCurl is the current name for what used to be the Gold Dot. A box of each in, in case you want to A/B them will run you $39.00 total. Unfortunately, after shipping, you're looking at over $50.00. That's probably more than I'm willing to shell out for an educational opportunity. I do still have the 15 or so of the 300gr SST/MLs, which were not as stellar a performer as their looks would suggest the last time I played with the other 35 of them. Nevertheless, they're just sitting in a box, so I'll load them up with a little overlap from the GDs to see how they perform, both velocity wise and accuracy wise. 5 runs of 3 won't uncover much information, but will again provide at least a characterization for future developers. Who knows, new powder, perhaps new behavior.

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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby tbirdman74 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:45 pm

Let me ask, in your opinion, should a guy not waste time trying to make the deep curls accurate, and move on to something like the xpb's in order to have an honestly accurate load for big(elk, moose, grizzly) game? I understand and know for fact that the 225 and 250 ftx are accurate and perform flawlessly, just one of those things where I want to use something different. I have been so occupied with other calibers and getting new guns shooting, I have not even shot my 450 since I got it back from having the chamber(leade) fixed. I'm guessing I'm going to have to start over from scratch with all of my loads and get new velocity numbers and such, so I'm thinking of going outside the box this time.

Edit: and by accurate, I am looking at the 150-300 yard range.
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby Hoot » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:43 pm

tbirdman74 wrote:Let me ask, in your opinion, should a guy not waste time trying to make the deep curls accurate, and move on to something like the xpb's in order to have an honestly accurate load for big(elk, moose, grizzly) game? I understand and know for fact that the 225 and 250 ftx are accurate and perform flawlessly, just one of those things where I want to use something different. I have been so occupied with other calibers and getting new guns shooting, I have not even shot my 450 since I got it back from having the chamber(leade) fixed. I'm guessing I'm going to have to start over from scratch with all of my loads and get new velocity numbers and such, so I'm thinking of going outside the box this time.

Edit: and by accurate, I am looking at the 150-300 yard range.


I am not the only person who has compared the two and others have found the XTP to be the more accurate of the two. If it were my money, hands down, I'd go with the XTP Mags over the DC/GD bullets. I'm not myopic however. Perhaps your particular rifle will like the DC/GDs better. You just never know unless you turn over that rock with your own setup. I'm guessing not though. Hornady has a longer and better track record at QC with bullets. Do yourself a favor though, unless it's eating you up and wait until I give those SST/MLs a try. My last outing with them suggested that spinning them faster was exactly the medicine they needed to pick up their game a notch or two. With the velocities I'm seeing with the 300MP, it may just be the tonic they need to break them into the next level of performance. I don't care what the hollow point manufacturers choose to claim about their particular bullet's BC. A tipped HP will do better when you're reaching out there, than an open point HPs with the gaping holes like the DC/GD has, followed closely by the XTP Mag, when the weights are all the same.

That's just my opinion though.

Hoot
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby tbirdman74 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:52 pm

Looking forward to the sst info, it could be fall before I get the chance to do any work on the 450, I've got to finish working the kinks out of the 300 blackout on my next trip home, then off to Alaska end of June so time is precious right now. I had some unused gift cards for cabelas, and picked up 60 200 gr xpb, and 20 of the 275's so I'm gonna put them to good use when I get to it.
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby Stealthshooter » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:21 pm

Look forward to your 300sst/ftx outing. I'm shooting mine right at 2120fps with H110 and getting sub moa accuracy out of them. Might be the speed might be the gun it will be interesting to see.
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby wildcatter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:19 am

Hoot wrote:
tbirdman74 wrote:Let me ask, in your opinion, should a guy not waste time trying to make the deep curls accurate, and move on to something like the xpb's in order to have an honestly accurate load for big(elk, moose, grizzly) game? I understand and know for fact that the 225 and 250 ftx are accurate and perform flawlessly, just one of those things where I want to use something different. I have been so occupied with other calibers and getting new guns shooting, I have not even shot my 450 since I got it back from having the chamber(leade) fixed. I'm guessing I'm going to have to start over from scratch with all of my loads and get new velocity numbers and such, so I'm thinking of going outside the box this time.

Edit: and by accurate, I am looking at the 150-300 yard range.


I am not the only person who has compared the two and others have found the XTP to be the more accurate of the two. If it were my money, hands down, I'd go with the XTP Mags over the DC/GD bullets. I'm not myopic however. Perhaps your particular rifle will like the DC/GDs better. You just never know unless you turn over that rock with your own setup. I'm guessing not though. Hornady has a longer and better track record at QC with bullets. Do yourself a favor though, unless it's eating you up and wait until I give those SST/MLs a try. My last outing with them suggested that spinning them faster was exactly the medicine they needed to pick up their game a notch or two. With the velocities I'm seeing with the 300MP, it may just be the tonic they need to break them into the next level of performance. I don't care what the hollow point manufacturers choose to claim about their particular bullet's BC. A tipped HP will do better when you're reaching out there, than an open point HPs with the gaping holes like the DC/GD has, followed closely by the XTP Mag, when the weights are all the same.

That's just my opinion though.

Hoot


I am going to 2nd Hoots remarks and add..

Again, What is your Mission? Without a clear mission it's possible to pick the wrong bullet.

You seem to suggest Minute of Moose/Griz, in Alaska (the 225's and 250's aren't your best choice here, they will kill, but they will over expand too) and we have a plethora of bullet choices for that mission. But if MOA is the Mission, then a different set of bullets are order. You can have both and the 200gr & 275gr XPB are a good choice and great killers for your AK mission (the 200's prolly better suited for elk and lessor animals). However, if sufficient accuracy AND Kill-ability is the Mission Profile, accuracy is prolly going to suffer, just a little, but you are going to Kill like Nobodies-Business (Your 230gr-FMJ's, 325gr Barnes Busters, etc are in order here.).

The problem we seem to be having is in the amount of bullets we have to choose from. But I say again, Define your Mission Requirements, don't choose a bullet that's so incredibly accurate you can't kill the target (as in Bang-Flop), because it's a 185gr Hollow-Point made to expand at 300fps, when three (3) MOA (that's a nine (9) inch group at 300yds) of a Bone Crunching Godzilla Killer would have done the Bang-Flop. BTW, the Hyper-Velocity 185's have killed Big Elk, Moose, and Bears. Ya just gotta know we have ALLOT of residual power going on here, it's just this little dissertation is about being much more efficient and responsible in our killing.

No, I say, Define the Mission, this will help narrow down your choices. Do I want Great Taste or Less Filling. Do I want Bang Flop or do I want match accuracy, you can have either in Spades or some of both..

..t
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby tbirdman74 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:53 pm

Umm... yeah. Sorry for a little confusion. The alaska trip is unfortunately not a hunting trip. Its more of a going to see old friends, maybe do a little fishing, but, I will be looking into future hunting trips while I'm there. As far as defining a mission, i'm going to put together a go to load for any hunting trip for deer to moose, with a range of 0-250 yards. Now, like you said, we have so many options for bullets that its hard to choose, so I know what I want, I just have to make the time to do the work and establish a load with acceptable accuracy and lethality with a given set of components that I have on hand. I have the 225 and 250 ftx, 200 and 275 xpb, the 300 gold dots, and some 260 and 300 gr nosler mz bullets, but only a limited supply of some. I'd hate to burn them all up in testing. Gonna go back over other members range reports of listed bullets and get a set of notes on what worked and what didn't, and then start the load workup sometime this summer. My gun has proven acceptable accuracy with both ftx loads, but have not tried it since the chamber was fixed so, more testing there. Its hard for me to define acceptable accuracy right now, I'm having issues with some other calibers and platforms that are just not performing up to what I think they should, and gonna have to learn to accept minute of silver dollar and stop trying to get minute of dime.
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby Hoot » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:36 pm

Here we go again.

Can you spot the next range day? :roll:

Image

Actually, of greater concern was my lapse in memory. I thought I had 15 or more Hornady 300gr SST/ML. Upon prepping some brass and checking a short while ago, I discovered it was only 10. Hardly enough to warrant packing for, setting up, shooting for a very short time, knocking down and unloading back at the house. Oh yeah, in the rain and snow mix. :|

Needless to say, time is on my side. We'll see how I feel when Spring decides to once again visit for a day or two...

Hoot
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Re: Range Rpt 300MP & 300 Gold Dots

Postby wildcatter » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:17 pm

Natchez has 7-lbs of 300-MP right now, for $16.99..

..t

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?co ... HPPP300MP1
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