New all-copper .452" bullet

[MichaelK]

While searching at midwayusa.com, I came across this new (soon to be available) .452" bullet made of copper. Since it has two bands instead of three, I assume that they are not Barnes factory seconds, but since they are about half the price of Barnes, they got my attention.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/588143 ... -box-of-20
Anyone here have any information about them, or their quality? Since I'm in California, I need a lead-free bullet for hunting. BTW, they also market a 275grain HP.

[lungingturtle2]

Sounds good, they say coming soon, I've been on their waiting list for over 6 Months so coming soon doesn't mean much. I still have hope, but not much.

[Hoot]

Sounds good, they say coming soon, I've been on their waiting list for over 6 Months so coming soon doesn't mean much. I still have hope, but not much.

Actually, they've been "coming soon" for something like 2 years.
They did have 160 and 185gr that were in the stream. I tried some and I may have written them up back in late May or early June of 2012. There were issues with them being too narrow as in .449-.450. Couldn't get Lil Gun really cooking due to that as I recall. Off to work now...

Hoot

[commander faschisto]

"Coming soon" in this industry really means: Don't hold your breath....

[pitted bore]

While searching at midwayusa.com, I came across this new (soon to be available) .452" bullet made of copper. Since it has two bands instead of three, I assume that they are not Barnes factory seconds, but since they are about half the price of Barnes, they got my attention.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/588143 ... -box-of-20
Anyone here have any information about them, or their quality? Since I'm in California, I need a lead-free bullet for hunting. BTW, they also market a 275grain HP.

MichaelK-
I'll add a couple of additional notes to those above.

I think Midway is the only retailer that labels those bullets "C.O.P." As far as I can determine, they are made by General Bullet. Here's a link to their website: General Bullet: Solid Copper Hollow Point.

The website is set up for ordering bullets directly. I'm not sure whether they are less expensive than Midway. In 45 caliber, they show the 160-grain and 225-grain hollow point bullets as being available. (The site does not show the 185-grain howllow point that is currently available from Midway as a C.O.P. bullet. Midway also shows a 250-grain hollowpoint for the 454 Casull as "coming soon".)

The website shows the 200-grain and 275-grain pointed hollow points, but they are not available, just as at Midway.

Three years ago I worked with the 160-grain hollow point C.O.P./General bullet in my bolt guns, and managed to push them to 3150 fps. They performed as well or better than the Barnes 160-grain hollow point. The tests are described in this thread: Testing another 160: Need for Speed Part D.

Forum poster rohk also worked with the 160-grain General bullets, and obtained pretty good accuracy and velocity with an AR.
--Bob

[wildcatter]

While searching at midwayusa.com, I came across this new (soon to be available) .452" bullet made of copper. Since it has two bands instead of three, I assume that they are not Barnes factory seconds, but since they are about half the price of Barnes, they got my attention.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/588143 ... -box-of-20
Anyone here have any information about them, or their quality? Since I'm in California, I need a lead-free bullet for hunting. BTW, they also market a 275grain HP.

MichaelK-
I'll add a couple of additional notes to those above.

I think Midway is the only retailer that labels those bullets "C.O.P." As far as I can determine, they are made by General Bullet. Here's a link to their website: General Bullet: Solid Copper Hollow Point.

The website is set up for ordering bullets directly. I'm not sure whether they are less expensive than Midway. In 45 caliber, they show the 160-grain and 225-grain hollow point bullets as being available. (The site does not show the 185-grain howllow point that is currently available from Midway as a C.O.P. bullet. Midway also shows a 250-grain hollowpoint for the 454 Casull as "coming soon".)

The website shows the 200-grain and 275-grain pointed hollow points, but they are not available, just as at Midway.

Three years ago I worked with the 160-grain hollow point C.O.P./General bullet in my bolt guns, and managed to push them to 3150 fps. They performed as well or better than the Barnes 160-grain hollow point. The tests are described in this thread: Testing another 160: Need for Speed Part D.

Forum poster rohk also worked with the 160-grain General bullets, and obtained pretty good accuracy and velocity with an AR.
--Bob

Is it just me or.. but 185/160grainers, L Gun sounds a little slow. For accuracy and some more velocity you might try AA4100, AA 9 or maybe 2400, in that order, 4100 being a little faster that Lil gun #9 being a lil faster than 4100 and 2400 being even still faster yet. I don't know I don't shoot the truly light weights, even though they sound very interesting..

..t

[Hoot]

Is it just me or.. but 185/160grainers, L Gun sounds a little slow. For accuracy and some more velocity you might try AA4100, AA 9 or maybe 2400, in that order, 4100 being a little faster that Lil gun #9 being a lil faster than 4100 and 2400 being even still faster yet. I don't know I don't shoot the truly light weights, even though they sound very interesting..

..t

You're right Tim. I did not mention it in my previous post, but I also tried 2400 with the lighter bullets. Neither powder yielded accuracy results obtainable with the 200 FTX and 200 XPB, again I believe it was due to the narrow diameter of the lots I bought. Who's to say that ones which are properly sized might perform better but once bitten, twice as shy. The 185s were definitely more accurate than the 160s. IIRC, I have a partial bag of the 160s still sitting on the bench. Anyone who wishes to have at them, they're yours for postage. Not sure if I have as many 185s left, but if I can find them, you can have them also.

This forum used to be rife with experiments and range reports. We need the nexgen experimenters to step up.

Hoot

[pitted bore]

Is it just me or.. but 185/160grainers, L Gun sounds a little slow. For accuracy and some more velocity you might try AA4100, AA 9 or maybe 2400, in that order, 4100 being a little faster that Lil gun #9 being a lil faster than 4100 and 2400 being even still faster yet. I don't know I don't shoot the truly light weights, even though they sound very interesting.

T-
A real problem with trying to load bullets lighter than 200 grains in the 450B is the lack of tested pressure and loading data for any powder. Hornady shows nothing lighter than 240 grains, and Accurate/Ramshot tested no bullets lighter than 200. These lower weight limits are reasonable, because going below them often requires use of reloading techniques such as side-crimping, which is a large upward step in technical difficulty.

Perhaps more importantly, there is little practical use for bullets lighter than 200 grains. (Possibly I'm insufficiently imaginative.) Experimenting with them is fun and can be educational, sort of analogous to the construction and racing of top fuel dragsters. However, bullets under 200 grains in the 450B seem to me to be sub-optimal and not appropriate for other than experiments or plinking.

The progression of powders you suggested is about right, although I've found in some experiments with really light bullets that some of the rank order will change. Part of the problem I can't sort out concerns pressures suitable for the ARs. Blue Dot can be useful. Winchester 571, although having a charted burn speed that looks useful, is in fact not because of the requirement for case filling. As Hoot has found, 2400 can get tricky, with small increases in powder weight producing large increases in pressure.

--Bob