450b Reloading Powders

[Ed L T]

Thank you both for your replies.

I can understand your hesitation and concern and I do not want you to do anything that makes either one of you unconferrable with that said. I have been reloading Pistol: 9mm, 38, 44 mag. 45 ACP, 357 mag. Rifle 280, 30-06, 7mm mag, AR 223, 9mm, 308. Shotgun: 20 gage 12 gage steel and lead from buck shot to target loads for sporting clays for over 25 years. I also served in the USAF for 20 years so I know about doing things safely. I also own a computer shop so I am always looking for all kinds of info / data. For instance between talking with a local self made gunsmith and the internet I now mill out my own 80% AR lower receivers.

In the USAF I was a hydraulic mechanic on 8 plus different airframes. So I know how to fallow the book. Also by knowing the book and the systems I knew how to work the aircraft hyd systems to my advantage.
For instance myself and my team where deployed to repack a C-5 nose landing gear strut. On arrival we found that we where missing a fitting that would allow us to use a hand pump to release a clutch brake to allow the strut to be retracted for repacking. My experience and system knowledge allowed me to perform a procedure that was not in the book and never spoken of or to my knowledge ever performed before. So I know how and when to take a calculated risk. I still have both eyes and all of my fingers and toes so at 53 years of age I gess I am doing something right.

Now you both know me a little, but I do not know either one of you at this point. So just like in the military you have to build trust before I am going to trust you to watch my 6. So what does that mean even if you did give me load data I would, as I would hope anyone would, scrutinize it closely before using it.

I am patiently searching for alternate powder data for the 450b round.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

No offense intended. And wow. That's quite a dossier. I had no clue. But you must understand that it would be wreckless of me to encourage anyone to colour outside the lines when it comes to mini rocket science. (Reloading). I have to encourage all members about the importance of safety. Because in truth, I really don't know each persons skill level.
Tim LeGendre pounds it every time he gets a chance. "SAFETY FIRST".
And we want people to keep all their body parts. We don't want people blowing up their equipment or themselves.
My humble apologies if I offended you.
That is not my intention.
My intention is to keep everyone safe.
From the most skilled ballistically blessed to the newbie who has yet to catch his thumb in a Rock Chucker.

Oh Yeah. I grew up about a half mile from the south end of Barksdale AFB main runway. I spent a lot if time around Air Force folks. And B52s taking off in groups in the middle of the night were common place. Our relatives would literally "freak out" when they came to visit. The KC135s rattled our dishes in the cabinets.
And I am and always will be forever in love with the A 10 Warthog and the aroma of jet fuel. I used to lay in the pasture just south of that runway very close to the landing lights and watch B52s, KC135s, and ALL SORTS of military and NASA aircraft fly over my head and only a few hundred feet. That may be why I'm a bit deaf today but dammit, those were some thrilling childhood memories. I remember the first time one of my buddies' dad drove us over to Moon Lake, on the east side and we drove past the "bunkers". That's when I realized that we were so close, if a nuke incident were to ever happen, our whole neighborhood would have never even known what happened. We would have been ground zero. A very sobering realization for a ten year old.... LOL. Anyway, thanx for your service and like I said.... No offense intended.

[3rdgeargrndrr]

Yes, Ed, absolutely no offense intended, and we really understand your frustration with the current political climate and component shortage situation.
Is this somewhat what you were looking for?
http://www.450bm.com/?page_id=104 good references
http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=601 2400
http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64 blue dot
http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1070 4198
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=91731 early days on calguns

of course there are many more,
sorry this site doesnt have the loads in a structured searchable format, hopefully one day someone will get the data together, in a table
In terms of velocity, and accuracy, Lil Gun essentially tops the list.
There are a great deal of powders between 2400 and 4198 that can make a good bullet, but there is also another caveat,
you also have to match it to the gun, and ensure cycling reliability in the AR platform, which can be its own set of problems when rolling your own ammo. some loads may work fine in some guns, but not in others. So as with any powder, you will need to work up your own load for your gun.
Yes, Quickload will definitely help you sort out theoretical powders to use, I dont know of any substitute for it.
I have an idea that 4759 might work as well, but at this point have no need to work it up.

[Ed L T]

I am not liking this I type out a nice long reply hit submit and it goes miss to internet never never land.

I do understand your reluctance I would be more upset if this dangerous data was pass out like free coffee & donuts. Just like a new recite you have to show yourself worthy of trusts before you cane be trusted to watch your comrades 6 so no offense taken, think nothing of it.

Have not yet had the chance to look at the links but should be able to took at them later today.

I did get a pm that mentioned the 45-70 crimp mod and a bolt mod. I have seen the 45-70 crimp mod, but can not find the bolt mod if some one could give me the link I would appreciate it.

Thanks

[Ed L T]

Hi guys,

I looked at the links they have some good info that will be help full. I like the Blue Dot info and the 2400 powder interest me as well. I would like to fine a comparison data between Alliant 2400 & Alliant Steel powders. I was hoping someone with quick loads could help with that for educational purposes.

In the long run more info about where I am coming from. My 450B is a Bushmaster 16" barrel I mated to a YHM AR upper receiver. I still need to blend the feed ramp. I have two lowers I would want to use this upper with a lower I milled with a fixed stock and a YHM lower with an adjustable stock the Fab Defense Mako OD Olive Drab Green GL-Shock CP GLShockCP. I am hoping with this stock, Tubbs buffer spring, a bolt mod, and maybe a heaver buffer I can get the recoil down enough that the 4 bolts in my back will not kill me.

I live in Delaware so hog & dear hunting are not my #1 concern, but good ballistic performance is, because you just never know when you deed that tool to do the job! Besides you just never know when my new friend Texas Sheepdawg will say hay Ed come on down to Texas and lets kill some hogs. I would not want to be found unprepared for the opportunity. So if I had my wish for my 450B it would be Shooting Hornady 200 grain & 300 grain bullets, Barns 460SW, 200 grain and 275 grain XPB coppers. If I could get them to 2800 or 2900 fps that is as fast as I like to shoot any round.

Am I living a pipe dream or can I get there from here?

I really do appreciate all of your guys help and input thanks.

[3rdgeargrndrr]

http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=799 Hoots Cheap Carrier Weight system.
I dont use it for recoil reduction, its more for keeping the bolt closed a tad longer,
there is a commercial product similar to this,

Image links are down, so here are some pics I took of mine,

2800/2900 FPS,for 200 grainers, IMHO, is too lofty a goal for this gun. I havent seen any real data yet that would allow you to hit these speeds, and I dont think the bullets would hold together or have the correct terminal ballistics at that speed, but I could be wrong. I've tailored my rig to the 300 grain spectrum at this point and exceeding 2000Fps with those is a challenge to my fecal continence, with hotter loads I would only shoot on a cold day .
Also, the concussion/ recoil impulse would be close to unbearable I would surmise. Really, I dont know what you are planning on hunting, but that would be one insane round.

Most guys are running fixed stocks on their guns, I believe the 450 was tested/built using a fixed rifle length stock with standard rifle length buffer parts.

[pitted bore]

I am not liking this I type out a nice long reply hit submit and it goes miss to internet never never land. ...

Ed L T-
This problem is encountered not only with posts to a forum thread, but also with PMs. Three years ago I squawked about this: PM Frustrations

I don't think there's a cure. It is not a problem that is unique to 450bushmaster.com, because I've lost a lot of words on other forums. The best options are (1) to type your material in a text editor or word processor, then copy and paste into the forum compose box, or (2) to type in the forum's usual compose text box, and then "select all" and "copy", before using the preview or submit buttons.

If you find another reliable technique, let us know.
--Bob

[Texas Sheepdawg]

With Wildcatter out of pocket, it's going to be hard to say what those 200 grain rascals are capable of, but I do know that in order for me to push my 230 grain FMJ MagTechs at 2500 FPS, I'm exceeding SAAMI specs for the 450 Bushmaster. But there's a back story to that and there's also a few things that I'm doing that most guys aren't. (The LeGendre Crimp). I think Hoot and Gunny have some "quick load" software info about this round. Maybe they would chime in.

[pitted bore]

Hi guys, ... I would like to fine a comparison data between Alliant 2400 & Alliant Steel powders. I was hoping someone with quick loads could help with that for educational purposes. ...

Ed L T-
I'll use more than one reply to your several questions and statements.

QuickLoad may be not yet very reliable with the 450B loads. The models used in predicting results have been poorlyn calibrated for this cartridge. The thread listed previously for Blue Dot is an example of this. Some of the other posters may be able to point out that later versions of the program perform adequately.

I don't think Alliant's Steel powder has much possible usefulness in the 450B. I can understand it being attractive currently, because I've seen it on retail shelves from which most other powders have vanished. There's a reason. Steel was designed specifically for the use with steel-pellet shotshells, and has some unusual properties as a result. Shotshell loads using Steel have to operate at relatively low pressures (less than 11.5K psi), and yet have to be able to accelerate a relatively heavy projectile rapidly. These characteristics make for really crappy results in pistol cartridges (and the 450B is a pistol-like cartridge) that operate at much higher pressures. The powder is placed very differently on different lists of relative burn rate; I suspect that is the result of its being compared with other shotshell powders, not with other powders like 2400. Google can find statements from Alliant that indicate that Alliant tried it in the 44 Mag and other pistol cartridges, and the results were far from useful.

If you do searches for 2400 on 450bushmaster, you will find several threads which describe results. It was not really satisfactory. With bullets weighing 200 grains and above, it tends to be too fast, producing pressure signs before reaching good velocities. With bullets less than 200 grains, the cartridge runs out of powder space before getting good velocities. Hoot was getting some sort-of-OK results with 2400 four years ago using 225-grain bullets.

--Bob

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Ed, go to this supplier and get signed up for notifications on LilGun powder. But when they notify you, you better hop it FAST. They sell out quickly. I nabbed up a large jug of LilGun from these guys and while they take some time to ship, they are a pretty good supplier.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pro ... uctId/5607