Thoughts on 4198

[oilcan72]

Hello All,

I'm new to reloading for the 450BM but not new to reloading for other calibers, I have some IMR 4198 and I'm looking to load some Barnes 275 gr anyone have a good starting point?? I'm having a hard time finding much load data, or powder for that matter. I've been using some IMR 4227 and having some decent results, just looking to up my game a little for white tail season.

Thank you for any help, it will be appreciated,

oilcan72

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Welcome to the forum. I've never heard of anyone using those powders for Thumper... But I'm sure the gurus here may be able to offer you some insight, given some time.

[pitted bore]

... I have some IMR 4198 and I'm looking to load some Barnes 275 gr anyone have a good starting point?? I'm having a hard time finding much load data, or powder for that matter. I've been using some IMR 4227 and having some decent results, just looking to up my game a little for white tail season. ...

oilcan72-
Wecome to the 450b site!

As far as I am aware, there are only three sources of loading data published by reputable labs: the last couple of Hornady Handbooks, the Western Powders manual, and the recent AR reloading manual from Lyman. Unfortunately, none of these have published loads for the 275-grain Barnes bullet. Also, none of these sources include loads using IMR-4198 for any bullet of any weight.

It looks to me as if IMR-4198 is too slow for use in most 450b applications. Extrapolating from 460 S&W loading information, that powder may have some limited use when bullet weight exceeds 300 grains. If I'm correct in my guess, then trying IMR-4198 with your 275-grain Barnes bullets is likely to be frustrating in trying to improve on your results with IMR-4227. You are likely to find velocities much lower than acceptable, find the cases sooted as an indication of low pressure, and experience problems with ignition, including unburned powder.

If you're getting OK results with IMR-4227, it might be well to go deer hunting with loads using that powder.

Should you try any experiments with IMR-4198 then posting your results, even if they're poor, would be helpful to the rest of us.

Good luck.
--Bob

[pitted bore]

Welcome to the forum. I've never heard of anyone using those powders for Thumper... But I'm sure the gurus here may be able to offer you some insight, given some time.

TSD-
For loading the 450b, IMR-4227 is listed as a usable powder for all bullets weights in both the Hornady manual and the Lyman AR manual. In my limited experience with it, it has produced less satisfactory results than other powders; however, there may be combinations of bullets and rifles in which it is optimal.

IMR-4198 is probably too slow for most uses in the 450b.
--Bob

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Welcome to the forum. I've never heard of anyone using those powders for Thumper... But I'm sure the gurus here may be able to offer you some insight, given some time.

TSD-
For loading the 450b, IMR-4227 is listed as a usable powder for all bullets weights in both the Hornady manual and the Lyman AR manual. In my limited experience with it, it has produced less satisfactory results than other powders; however, there may be combinations of bullets and rifles in which it is optimal.

IMR-4198 is probably too slow for most uses in the 450b.
--Bob

Yeah Bob, I was referring to the IMR 4198 more than the IMR 4227.
In my mind 4198 rings a bell with my 30-06 or 7mmRemMag. I could be wrong though.
Honestly, I've been partial to LilGun but I know it's hard to find right now.

[oilcan72]

Thank You Texas Sheepdog, and Pitted bore,

I have some Remington accutip 260 gr factory ammo my rifle is sighted in with, I will use that for now, but I looked at the Western powders info and lo and behold there was some Accurate 5744 in my cupboard. I loaded some 300 gr bullets and will try them this weekend. Deer season is getting too close now for too much messin around. The loads using 4227 have been stringing high, roughly 3 inches high and 3/4 inch width, cases have been a little sooty as well. I'll keep you informed as to what I find out. I've been shooting at 50 yards, where I hunt in the river bottoms 100 yards is an extremely long shot, anywhere from 25 to 70 is about normal.

Thanks again,

oilcan72

[3rdgeargrndrr]

I will be trying the 4198, in a corvette, theoretically should be a sound choice with what I will be attempting
I used it briefly in 223,
as for 4227, it was very promising accuracy wise with 300 grainers, but i um, did something dumb with the last pound I had.

[45-70 shooter]

I am becoming 100% frustrated with cast bullets (at least the Lee 300 GC) in the 450. I got the mold aligned correctly so it now casts very round bullets.
I lube first (SPG) with a 453 die in my SAECO so there is no shaving. Then I put on the crimp on GC using that feature of the SAECO. I doubt more perfect bullets ever came from a Lee mold. Weight is +- 2/10 gr.

I wasted some of my last pounds of Lil Gun and H110, that netted 3-4" groups at 50 yards. Then back to a (published here) max load of 4227 for 300 gr jacketed bullets. 2 of 7 failures to cycle the bolt back far enough to pick up next cartridge. Six shot group was 1/2" high and 7" wide. There is not even the slightest trace of leading. The rifle continues to cloverleaf 3 factory loads @100 with a 4X scope.

Quality commercial cast bullets like Rim Rock cost as much as jacketed did 2 years ago, so forget that.

The final irony is that I have a 41 Swiss Vetterli 41caliber (.430) made around 1870 that with a 320 gr bullet blows by any 44 magnum handgun load with as heavy a bullet and shoots 2 moa @100 yards.

[3rdgeargrndrr]

There have been tribulations using lead/ hard cast in the 450. Your experience mimics what has occurred previously and i would say your results are very typical of what lighter hard cast loads provide. Have you had a chance to chrono those loads?
I dont know where the magical sweet spot is for hard cast (velocity or weight wise ) but the fun is trying to figure that out. Personally I would never want to push lead faster than 1800 fps. There are those who can and do but to me there are projectiles preferable for these missions.
I assume LilGun will be making its comeback. Ive seen varget and other pistol powders hitting and staying on shelves so things are looking better

Even a 5-6moa gun is devastating at 50yd pig ranges with 300 grains.

[wildcatter]

I am becoming 100% frustrated with cast bullets (at least the Lee 300 GC) in the 450. I got the mold aligned correctly so it now casts very round bullets.
I lube first (SPG) with a 453 die in my SAECO so there is no shaving. Then I put on the crimp on GC using that feature of the SAECO. I doubt more perfect bullets ever came from a Lee mold. Weight is +- 2/10 gr.

I wasted some of my last pounds of Lil Gun and H110, that netted 3-4" groups at 50 yards. Then back to a (published here) max load of 4227 for 300 gr jacketed bullets. 2 of 7 failures to cycle the bolt back far enough to pick up next cartridge. Six shot group was 1/2" high and 7" wide. There is not even the slightest trace of leading. The rifle continues to cloverleaf 3 factory loads @100 with a 4X scope.

Quality commercial cast bullets like Rim Rock cost as much as jacketed did 2 years ago, so forget that.

The final irony is that I have a 41 Swiss Vetterli 41caliber (.430) made around 1870 that with a 320 gr bullet blows by any 44 magnum handgun load with as heavy a bullet and shoots 2 moa @100 yards.

I wold think 4198 "Might" be a decent choice for your project with bullet ranges that start with 300 grainers and say even better with 400gr plus or minus weigh?

These might just be the trick for 4198 in you project.. http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/i ... 45%2F395DC
Or
Something like these "SIZED" to .452"?? http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/store/i ... 458%2F420A

..t