Am I starting in the right direction?

[BlackSheep]

Hello everyone! This is my first post and Id like to say how great it is to find such a great forum on the 450BM. Lots of great information and there is something to be said about how helpful you all are when questions come up. That being said, I was hoping to get a little feedback on my first attempt at some 450 loads. I've read quite a bit of information already posted in the forum, but I would like a definite answer as to whether I am going about this the right way. So here's what I've got so far.

Rifle: XM-15E2S 16" barrel

Bullet: Xtreme 230gr FMJ .452 - bullet length: .642. BC .161.
Case: Once fired bushmaster
Primer: CCI BR-4 (all I could find locally)
Powder: W296
C.O.L: 2.100.

I've loaded (3) rounds at each of the following charges:
39gr, 39.5gr, 40gr, 40.5gr 41gr, 41.5gr

I also had a question on the taper crimp. I did not expand the case mouths. The bullet seat nicely without it so I didn't bother. Neck tension felt about right through the press stroke and when I measured the mouth it .476-.475, which seems to be what several people have been crimping to. So my question is, do I need to taper crimp at all? Or, should I crimp a little? Say to .473 maybe? (Which I already did.....)

This is my first attempt at straight wall cases so I'm kinda shy about it. Any and all suggestions or comments are much appreciated.
Thanks,
Simp

[pitted bore]

Simp-
Welcome to the 450B website. It's pleasant to reply to a post that shows the writer has actually paid some attention to technical details that are posted on this site.

Are you using Hornady or Remington cases? I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference, but most reloading work has been done with the Hornady product.

It seems to me you've started about right, but I'll mention a couple of cautionary points. First, please post your observations and experiences with the Xtreme bullet. If I read their website correctly, these are plated bullets. The reports of users of the Berry Plated bullets are not uniformly positive. In some instances pieces of the plating have been reported to come off the bullet when fired from a 450B rifle. The problem appears to be that the rifle drives the bullets close to twice their designed velocities.

Your max load with W296 may be a trifle warm. The Lyman AR manual recommends 41.2 grains as maximum for H110 (=W296) with 225-grain FTX bullets, and you're over this slightly for both bullet weight and powder weight. Be careful, and be closely observant with this amount of powder and this bullet.

In general, ball powders are better ignited with a magnum primer, which the CCI benchrest primers are not. They may function well in your rifle with your loads. Try them and see.

With your softer bullets, you probably will experience no problems with the taper crimping to a diameter of 0.473". It may cause a slight rupture in the jacket, which may cause plated jacket shedding when the bullets are fired.

Good luck, and let us know how these shoot.
--Bob

[BlackSheep]

Thanks for the quick reply Bob. The cases are hornady. Thought I included that in my original post but, I've been scatter brained lately. As far as my charges, I assumed that 41.5 might be pushing it, but I will watch for pressure/accuracy during my testing. I'm not looking for a speed demon. If I can get decent accuracy out of a low cost load I will be happy.

I had planned on giving a range report today, but due to a recent and abrupt weather change yesterday day I wimped out! 61 degrees one minute and 11 minutes later it was 41.... Yuck! 29 degrees when I got my equipment set up this morning and 10-12mph full value wind. I think I can wait a few days.

Next chance I get to shoot there will be a full report.

Thanks again,
Simp

[Jim in Houston]

You do need the taper crimp, and .475 - .476 is what most people use. The crimp serves to hold the bullet back just slightly to allow pressure to build up in the casing, and it will also help to prevent the bullet from sliding forward in the case, when it is chambered. Some of us are also using a stab crimp before they taper crimp to get a bit more hold back, but I am not convinced that you get that much more performance to justify the extra step in reloading.

I have reloaded both Hornady and Remington brass, and I can't tell the difference in performance on the reloads. On the OEM, most people (me included) have gotten markedly better groups with Hornady. Unless you have a specific need for another bullet, I would stick with the 225 and 250 gr FTX. They have been proven on large deer and some other big game. I plan to load something else for elk, if I get the chance to hunt them again. BTW Midway periodically sells blems, which look like the factory bullets, but sell for half price. Someone will usually post on the forum, if they become available.

Good luck, and keep the questions coming.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

If these bullets are indeed, plated..... Not a true jacketed design.... Be forewarned that plated bullets out of this rifle cartridge are not a good idea and if you do decide to move forward, I would not fire but one bullet at a time and inspect the bore after each and every shot and also watch for a puff of "blueish" smoke. Also, you need to start with target pretty close to you. That way, if the bullet exhibits any failures as it exits the barrel and starts to fly apart, those particles will hit the target and leave shrapnel holes all over it. And remember, those particles will find their way into the gas tube and back into the action (BCG), and also there may very well be particles jetting out of your muzzle brake and you could end up spraying something or someone off to the side of your bench area.
Regarding "plated" bullets VS "Jacketed" bullets, we have taken deliberate measures to make sure that everyone understands that shooting "plated" bullets out of this rifle is strongly discouraged for safety reasons. If you decide not to listen to me, at least discuss this with WildCatter, the father, inventor and grand Puba of the 450 Bushmaster.
Personally, I would not shoot the loads that you have described, especially with those powder charges. I would pull them down and find some MagTechs, or Hornady FMJs and leave the plated bullets for my Glock 21 or my Colt Commander 45ACPs.
I cannot stress this strong enough. Don't use plated bullets for Thumper.
Stay Safe.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Remember this too. You can't just consider the forward speed of the bullet. You MUST take into consideration the RPM demands placed upon the bullet as the rifling spins up the bullet as it's traveling down the bore. Consider it to be like a grape impaled on a dremel bit and spun up to 10,000RPMs within a micro second.
Ever experienced a stone dremel bit fail at 20,000 RPMs? Same theory.

[BlackSheep]

Well...... Back to the drawing board haha. Anybody interested in a 500ct of Xtreme 230grain? Thanks for the insight sir! I don't see much sense in even attempting to run them. If it can be done right, don't do it at all.

Say I get some good jacketed bullets, would the charges that I previously posted be suitable for a work-up? Or is there another avenue that I should pursue?

I appreciate your time and insight on the subject.

Thanks,
Simp

[Al in Mi]

get yourself a 45acp and burn those Extremes up

[BlackSheep]

That's kinda what I had planned on. Every pistol I own is 45acp and I hardly ever shoot them. Plus, since I'm sitting on about 2500 rounds of 45acp bulk, I will prolly see about trading them at my local gun shop. Only have about $55 in them so they might be worth holding on to. We shall see.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

If you own 45acps. Hang on to those billets. Remember that obamas EPA shut down the last major lead smelting plant earlier this year.
As for your loads with standard jacketed FMJs , I've only used LilGun at those charges. I think the 296 might be okay, but it may be a bit slower burning than desired. Also, I've been using hotter primers and the LeGendre stab crimps. I will find my range report and post a link here in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8633

Also stop by my You Tube Channel for some interesting range fun with the 230 Grain FMJs.
There will be links in the above thread a few pages into the reports.