C.O.L for 200 gr FTX

[Hoot]

...snip...
slugger-
I can see nothing obviously wrong with the bullet seating shown in your image. The length of cannelure exposed seems about right for a taper crimp to move some of the case mouth slightly into the cannelure for bullet retention. Perhaps Hoot has a different opinion. Let us know the results of your range session.

--Bob

Nothing to add. You should be good to go with your setup.

I will say this though it is indirectly related to your question. Cases shrink the first few times you shoot them. Seating dies are set to maintain the same COL from round to round, based upon a limiting how far down into the case the bullet inserts, not whether all the cannelures are seated the same with relation to longer and shorter cases. When I'm doing 5 shot powder charge increment runs, I match up as best as possible, my resized cases by length in groups of 5 so that at least within the respective charge group, the taper crimp engages their cannelures as similar as possible. You want the charge to be tested and not include the impact of the different crimp zones to be included. It's one of the "low hanging fruit" preparation techniques that you can call upon to reduce your velocity SD.

Prepping the inside of the case mouths to a depth that includes how far your bullets seat is another factor. IE When you seat your bullets, if you feel substantial difference in resistance to the bullet's insertion, that will ripple through in the resulting velocity produced. Fortunately, one of the more recent developments in case cleaning is the advent of wet pin tumbling. It can normalize the inside of the cases about as well as it is famous for doing the outside. Blammo ammo is one thing. Ammo for testing load workups is another. If you have a wet tumbling system, remember to deprime the cases before wet tumbling, not just to get the pockets clean, but to encourage the liquid to flow easily down inside the cases along with the pins. If you don't deprime, you can get air pockets trapped down in some cases and/or contaminated liquid carrying the displaced dirt that can not easily be replaced with less dirty liquid as they tumble. Simple technique tricks that stack the accuracy deck in your favor abound. To avoid dragging un-tumbled, dirty cases over the internal surface of your dies when you deprime, just run the stem out further so that the only contact is the depriming pin on the spent primer as it pushes it out. I resize after doing the wet tumble of deprimed brass, so that the crud normally on the outside of the uncleaned cases doesn't abrade the inner die walls over time. Yeah, it adds a step, but reloading isn't just a chore. It has Zen like rewards.

Maybe if I were 30 years younger, I could find more rewarding things to do with the time spent preparing my brass for reloading.

Hoot

[Texas Sheepdawg]

There's a reason they include the expander die, folks. If I don't use mine, I TRASH BRASS. I at least run my expander die in far enough to make a ever so slight flair on the case mouth. It hardly noticeable to the naked eye, but yep, I have to do this to all of my brass.
Otherwise, this is the result when I try to seat bullets.

Squished

image.jpeg (954.5 KiB) Viewed 12602 times

[Jim in Houston]

There's a reason they include the expander die, folks. If I don't use mine, I TRASH BRASS. I at least run my expander die in far enough to make a ever so slight flair on the case mouth. It hardly noticeable to the naked eye, but yep, I have to do this to all of my brass.
Otherwise, this is the result when I try to seat bullets.

I have never had this happen. I would think that you would encounter a lot of resistance when seating the bullet to get the case to buckle like that. I have sliced cases down the side, maybe twice, by getting the case cocked as it went into the die and the edge of the collet that centers the bullet caught the edge of the case, but I had to force the round into the die and should have known better.

If I were to have problems getting the bullet to enter the case, I would go to the expander die, but so far that hasn't happened to me.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Not every set of dies are identical. My resizer is tight. I have no complaints. I have yet to split a case either during loading or shooting. And I use my expander on every lot I build.

[Slugger]

I sat down Saturday and did a test batch of 5 rounds. I ran 5 rounds back through the sizer since I had already expanded them. Out of the 5 I had 2 with a very very slight bulge in the case. One I could see after I felt it first. the other I cant see it even after feeling it with my fingers. A quick plunk test in the chamber confirmed they will be fine but makes me wonder how my results will be with a larger batch. Time will tell as this is a painstakingly slow process for me with school age kids and limited free time.

[Hoot]

I sat down Saturday and did a test batch of 5 rounds. I ran 5 rounds back through the sizer since I had already expanded them. Out of the 5 I had 2 with a very very slight bulge in the case. One I could see after I felt it first. the other I cant see it even after feeling it with my fingers. A quick plunk test in the chamber confirmed they will be fine but makes me wonder how my results will be with a larger batch. Time will tell as this is a painstakingly slow process for me with school age kids and limited free time.

Seeing (easier)or feeling a bulge in the portion of the case where the bullet is seated is not unusual. Think about it. Something has to give as the bullet is seated. Having pulled down loads I can attest that the bullet and case both conceded a little in order to mate. Sadly, that is why I don't reuse pulled bullets, even solid copper ones though they compress a little less than cup and core bullets. The key and as you observed is whether they pass the "thunk test".

Count your blessings. I still have a quart peanut butter jar full of prepped .284 Win brass that I cut down to try reloading with the 450b. Those case walls are thicker than Hornady 450b brass and depending upon the lot number of the brass, many bulge so bad that they will not pass the thunk test and pulled bullets are noticeably squeezed down. On only one of about four batches of .284 brass that I wrestled with before giving in to just buying 450b brass, were the resulting loads able to chamber and those were had from another member who had provided me with them. Could have been because they were once fired, as opposed to the new stuff I was working with. Meanwhile the tea in china goes up in price.

Expanding the brass to any degree before loading them will have no bearing upon bulge. It just eases starting them down in. As Robin has said, the result of resizing a particular die imparts has the greatest impact. I crushed a few cases myself once, but it was while doing some annealing tests and my guess was that the annealing might have softened them too much. All that says is that my particular resizing die is probably more generous than Robin's. While most members who reload will attest to not using the expander and also as Robin and you have testified, moderation is the key to success. Use as little expansion as possible to get the job done. Also, don't be alarmed if you see or feel a bulge. It should instead be comforting as it is testimony to how well the case will hold onto the bullet when slamming into battery and also when the fur starts to fly during ignition. This caliber literally begs for as much neck tension as any possible means will deliver, short of gluing them in with primer sealer. Don't laugh, its been discussed here.

Hoot

[Al in Mi]

I loaded a few 250gr FTX rounds tonite and measured the inside of the sized cases at .446, then measured them after running the expander in so the mouth was about .453ish, and about 1/2" down they were .447.

I always taper crimp till the mouth is .470-.471ish, so then for giggles I took a round and loaded it 12 times thru the mag just letting the carrier slam it home, bullet moved .003.

not very scientific by no means, but works for me.

[pitted bore]

... This caliber literally begs for as much neck tension as any possible means will deliver, short of gluing them in with primer sealer. Don't laugh, its been discussed here.

Hoot-
Yeah, several goos have been discussed in this forum as a means to increase bullet pull. Here's a thread from 2010 that discusses the problem, and even mentions the old calguns thread that proposed loctite as a pull-increasing possibility: Bullet/Case Sealant - Asphaltum - Gum. In one post of that thread I linked a powerpoint technical presentation from some military munitions persons, describing their work with mil-spec sealants for bullets in cases. Surprisingly, the link is still alive.

Another use of the expander/flaring die is to round out case mouths. The sizing die can do a moderately good job of fixing an out-of-round case mouth, but judicious use of the expanding die can help the process along considerably.

--Bob

[Hoot]

... This caliber literally begs for as much neck tension as any possible means will deliver, short of gluing them in with primer sealer. Don't laugh, its been discussed here.

Hoot-
Yeah, several goos have been discussed in this forum as a means to increase bullet pull. Here's a thread from 2010 that discusses the problem, and even mentions the old calguns thread that proposed loctite as a pull-increasing possibility: Bullet/Case Sealant - Asphaltum - Gum. In one post of that thread I linked a powerpoint technical presentation from some military munitions persons, describing their work with mil-spec sealants for bullets in cases. Surprisingly, the link is still alive.

Another use of the expander/flaring die is to round out case mouths. The sizing die can do a moderately good job of fixing an out-of-round case mouth, but judicious use of the expanding die can help the process along considerably.

--Bob

+1 on rounding out cases that hit mouth down on a hard surface. I love my brass catcher!
As far as sealants go and I imagine there are many choices out there, I would be leery of sealants that cure hard and brittle like LocTite or Super Glue. My concern with them would be tailings left on the bullet heel scratching up the bore. The old milsurp 7.62x51 NATO I used to burn in my G3 had a bituminous looking sealant to it. AKA Tar. Back in the days of tube TVs, every repair tech had a bottle of "Corona Dope", not to be confused with a person who has drank too much Mexican beer. It was tar thinned with Acetone to the consistency of fingernail polish. You could dab a little bit over a crack in the insulation of high voltage carrying wires. It cured quickly to a semi rigid but not brittle layer. Not being the kind of guy who threw anything away, I still had a bottle until recently. Thinking I could use it for bullet sealant, I tried opening the bottle, but it along with its contents had long since set up. I think you can still get the stuff from electronic supply houses that carry GC products.

Hoot