First reloads

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First reloads

Postby Sesshoku » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:07 pm

I made it to the range today with my first set of hand loads for testing with my rifle. I intended to rent a chronograph at the range but couldn't. They gave me a reason, but it's not important. Anyway, things went well today ... until they didn't. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I am brand new to reloading. I did take a class recently before I tried my first batch of loads, but I'm still as green as the grass in May.

So, I started out with a batch of 20 cartridges loaded with Hornady 250gr. FTX bullets and another group of 20 with the Barnes 200gr. XPB. I wanted to test four different loads with each bullet and based my starting points off the Hornady 9th edition manual, the Lyman AR manual and info from trusted forum members. Using Lil'Gun and WSR primers, I loaded the FTX bullets, starting at 38 gr. and working up to 39.5 gr. I then loaded the XPB bullets, starting at 38.5 gr and worked up to 40.0 gr.

I fired two round of factory ammo to start. I will say before I start that some of these groups would've been better if I'd done my part behind the trigger better. Anyway, it was cold at 26 degrees, but little to no wind. Though I was a bit nervous, I moved on to my hand loads. And this is what I got from the FTX bullets:

Image

Not terrible, but I didn't use a sled and I could've shot better. All things considered, I like the 38.0 gr. load, and the 39.5 gr. didn't look too bad either. I was worried at first mainly because these numbers don't match what is in the Hornady manual, but I got advice from more than one experienced 450 loader on this forum, read numerous posts here and on the Facebook page and treaded forward, albeit lightly.

Next, I moved on to the Barnes 200gr. XPBs. Going off data from the Lyman book, I started with loads ranging from 38.5 gr. to 40.0 gr. I liked where it was going as a start. Then things took a turn south. A sharp turn south by my estimation, and that is why I'm writing this. I'm hoping someone can give me a clue as to what screwed up.

Image

After this group, I started on the next set, and the 39.0 gr. loads fired fine, but the group was wide open and way right. Moving on to 39.5, I fired the first two just fine. The third load was a delayed fire. I heard the hammer hit then the round fired. I was a little worried about that, so I dropped my magazine, cleared the chamber and everything seemed ok. So I loaded the next round and this time, only the primer fired. It sounded louder than just the primer, but I knew something was wrong. So I put the gun on safe, and pulled the charge handle back. At that point, the case ejected and a bunch of powder flew out with it. Obviously, the bullet was lodged in my barrel, so I pulled the upper off, removed the bolt and charge handle to verify. Sure enough, the bullet was in the barrel but very near the chamber. I took it inside to a guy who works at the range who is an experienced reloader. He used a rod and tapped the bullet out. It came out real easy, but the whole scenario definitely had my nervous rattled.

Inspecting the bullet, we could see that it barely touched the rifling of the barrel.

Image

So, during our discussion and after telling him all my load info, he told me that when it is that cold outside that I should've used magnum primers with Lil'Gun powder. It sounded like a logical statement, but I can hardly believe that at 26 degrees (not super cold in my opinion) I'd have a problem with powder not igniting. Needless to say, that was the end of my range session. Well, I did change uppers to start sighting in a new sight on my .223 as you might notice in the photo above, but I had problems there too with the bolt not stripping rounds out of the magazines. I associated these issues to my upper needing a cleaning and the fact that it was cold and maybe the slight bit of oil I did have in there was gummed up. I don't know, I think more than anything I was just trying to make sense of something, anything. So I headed for home.

But, here I am, extremely lucky I wasn't able to chamber another .450 round and fire into a plugged barrel and wondering if this is something stupid that I did or if the man I spoke to was correct. I remember reading something from Hoot about using Remington 7 primers because they are hotter, but I'll have to go back and reread that to make sure. Is it possible that in cold weather I should use hotter primers? Is Lil'Gun THAT susceptible to cold? I mean, when I hunt deer here in NE Indiana, it can be anywhere from 50 down to single digits, and I can't not be able to shoot just because it's a little cold.
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Re: First reloads

Postby Cutright » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:25 pm

That is an interesting problem. One which I've never felt with. Since you're new, I'm assuming that the powder is new and in good shape. I can't see that weather would be an issue. However, according to my manuals, your load for the 250FTX is too hot. I have a max at 37.5 and 37.9 grains with LilGun. Good luck
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Re: First reloads

Postby Al in Mi » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:49 pm

first thing comes to my mind on the Barnes is bullet tension. There was some discussion on a thread a couple weeks ago about using the expander die or not. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14804&start=10

One other thing I might suggest is a heavier taper crimp. I usually bury mine to .470ish on the lead cored bullets, not sure if you'd get that on a Barnes or not, but worth a try.

I can't comment 100% on primers because I've used them all at various temps down to 10* and never had a issue, but my current loads use the CCI 450.
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Re: First reloads

Postby m113103 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:03 am

What primer did you use? Where you careful handling the primers? Did you use a lightened hammer spring? :P :P :P :D
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Re: First reloads

Postby m113103 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:17 am

Just an afterthought did you clean the storage oil out of the bolt carrier and firing pin area? Light hammer strikes or contaminated primers could cause your problems. :P :D
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Re: First reloads

Postby m113103 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:21 am

Sorry I reread your post and saw that you used Winchester SR . :P
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Re: First reloads

Postby Sesshoku » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:58 am

Yes, I used Winchester SR primers. One thing I considered but I think it may be a stretch is that my powder dispenser and all other gear is brand new. I took the dispenser apart and cleaned it to get all the packing oil off. I suppose it's possible that I missed some and it could've contaminated a bit of powder. But the load that hung up was well in the middle of the group I loaded. I fired 27 rounds no problems. I take that back. I did have one failure to eject and in all of the first 5 shots, the brass barely ejected. But I had no firing issues until that delayed fire then the hung fire.

I didn't see anything I would recognize as over pressure signs. Of course that doesn't mean much since I don't have much experience recognizing that. Several brass did have fouling all the way down to the case head, but I'm not sure what that's telling me. I think maybe I will pull the remaining 12 bullets from this batch, dump the powder and the primers and start over.
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Re: First reloads

Postby Cutright » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:38 am

I am new to this as well, but it seems to me that the problem has to be with the powder. If the primer went off, the powder should too. All the left over powder and fowling seems that the powder has been contaminated
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Re: First reloads

Postby Hoot » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:24 am

Sounds like the bullets may be jumping out of the case with just the primer energy and before the powder gets cooking. You should mic one of the bullets. Don't be afraid to taper crimp down into the driving band groove, more than you did. As Al said, you can go a lot further than what you can with a cannelured or plain sided bullet. I'm assuming you seated the bullet per my article to around 2.18 COL, so that the driving band groove closest to the nose, is just peeking above the case mouth.
I'm a big fan of measuring the crimp diameter using a micrometer, but use whatever you have if you have faith in its accuracy. Once you have the desired diameter, you can lock down the taper crimp die and no need to measure more than maybe one more mouth, just to make sure your results are reproducible and you didn't change the taper crimp die position when you tightened the lock nut.
While everyone has their favorite primers, I prefer the Remington 7 1/2.

Image

That's just the primer!

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In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
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Re: First reloads

Postby m113103 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:30 am

What reloading tool are you using. Not the brand , but the style. If you are new stay away from the progressives until you get a lot of experience. I always do a visual check on the primers when they are in the flipper (had some with no primer compound in them, had another with the anvil upside down). I also do a visual check when I charge the cases with powder. Make sure your hands are clean no oil or case lube. Primer seating depth can also create problems. Just MHO. :P :P :P :D
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