Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Al in Mi » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:06 am

Al in Mi wrote:
Rklenke wrote:Also, does everyone seat to the cannelure or just off of the lands?


I'd use the cannuler as a reference and seat below it. The 450 has a generous amount of free bore so getting close to the rifling and keeping the oal to fit in the mag likely not going to happen.


I stand corrected, as Hoot noted, the 300gr XTP mags also hit the lands on my factory Bushey at 2.220 oal. :oops:
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Rklenke » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:11 am

Have you noticed an increase in accuracy with seating the heavy bullets to the lands? I only have a few left, so I'm not sure the testing is worth it until after hunting season.
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Hoot » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:35 am

Rklenke wrote:Have you noticed an increase in accuracy with seating the heavy bullets to the lands? I only have a few left, so I'm not sure the testing is worth it until after hunting season.


The re-sized .458 325gr XTP bullets only exhibited increased accuracy as I sped them up more. Again, probably a testimony to the value of a faster twist than my 1:24 barrel. Since the biggest game where I live are white tail, I am more inclined toward faster, lighter 450b loads as a whole. If I were hunting Bison, that would be a different story. I've dabbled many times with 300 grainers, never to my satisfaction in terms of groups, but only once above that weight.

Back to the COL at which you hit the lands: If you could get a truly flat nosed bullet to successfully cycle, you would hit the lands with a COL way less than the magazine restriction, as demonstrated in this experiment back in 2009:

Image

As Wildcatter was fond of insisting, if you plow into any North American creature with a flat .452 bullet traveling at the speeds we get up to, it would create a devastating wound channel! Never mind a mushrooming hollow or soft point. Everyone at some point, has stood in water and slapped their flat palm down as fast as they could. Hurts like hell compared to a sideways Karate chop...

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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Rklenke » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:40 am

That's a pretty useful picture. I don't have a comparator, but it makes sense that the ogive is seated to that distance. I'm assuming that's a bullet seated backward? How did it shoot?
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Al in Mi » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:43 am

Rklenke wrote:Have you noticed an increase in accuracy with seating the heavy bullets to the lands? I only have a few left, so I'm not sure the testing is worth it until after hunting season.


I haven't tried yet. I run a TR20 on it and at 4x, 2" is about all I can do with these aged eyes anymore.

Couple things, I use 1680 powder which from my experiences likes to have some compression to it, so seated accordingly. Then these 300gr I run out of a unmodified Pmag which has that rib in the front, so worked out seating them deeper to clear it.
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Rklenke » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:48 am

These bullets came to mind on the flat nose topic.
http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &secondary

On the powder topic, lilgun does leave quite a bit of space in the case even with the bullet seated to the cannelure (AA9 was worse) and stories of powder detonation always play in the back of my mind weekend I'm shooting. A full powder column would be reassuring. What type of velocity and accuracy do you get with 1680?
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Al in Mi » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:32 am

im above book with 1680, but she's running right at 2000fps.

2" about best I can get with 5 shots at 4x and my eyes these days. I set up with a Trijicon TR20 with a green triangle since day one, original intent was using 300gr bullets for blasting hogs down south or for when I hunt in the big woods behind me where a 50yd shot is a long shot. Usually have it in the truck all season as a option just in case.

I should pop a bigger scope on it and see what it will do, but that will have to wait till spring.
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Hoot » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:04 am

Rklenke wrote:That's a pretty useful picture. I don't have a comparator, but it makes sense that the ogive is seated to that distance. I'm assuming that's a bullet seated backward? How did it shoot?


Correct, IIRC, it is a 300gr SST/ML (FTX) backwards. The flatter the base, the more accurate the reading. IE don't use a boat tail bullet or one with a large radius at the edge of the base. I did not create a load using it that way, the image was from a thread discussing how to determine the length of freebore (throat) in any given brand of barrel. Not to be confused with leade. Leade is the short distance after the freebore (throat) that is where it tapers down to the actual bore (lands and grooves). Those two transitions are very identifiable in the SAAMI drawing for the chamber reamer. Available on their web page The 300gr SST/ML has a small amount of radius at the corners of the base, so it does go into the leade slightly, before stopping. That's why my reading of 1.96 is in excess of the SAAMI spec for the freebore (throat) by ≈.06

Here's a tip folks: When you want to search for something specific on this forum, for heaven's sake, use Google not the internal search engine, even though the latter has gotten better in recent years. All you need to do with Google is point it to this forum by preceding your search term(s) with site:450bushmaster.net
IE site:450bushmaster.net "distance to lands" The quotation marks make Google search for that exact expression, not every post with any or all of those words in it. Use the quotation marks prudently however. That example search yielded 9 results. It did not yield the 5 results with distance to the lands since that was not the exact expression. Without quotation marks the search yields 35 posts.

Hoot

PS: those Missouri bullets cited by Al while working properly in the 45LC, would pose a challenge getting the right seating depth (if at all) that would allow them to survive the ride up the feedramp, past the barrel extension and into the chamber in our uppers. Not saying it can't be done, but if it could, it would probably take a specific COL determined through experimentation.
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby OldManLee » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:58 am

Been reviewing on here for a few months, first post. Great forum, thanks for providing this. I just moved up to rural Alaskan bush and assemble my firstAR. An 450 16” and have been searching your reloading sections. Great info! Saw huge brown bear tracks last summer while out picking berries with my son and decided I needed protection :-)
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Re: Hornady and Lil Gun reloading velocities

Postby Hoot » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:09 pm

OldManLee wrote:Been reviewing on here for a few months, first post. Great forum, thanks for providing this. I just moved up to rural Alaskan bush and assemble my firstAR. An 450 16” and have been searching your reloading sections. Great info! Saw huge brown bear tracks last summer while out picking berries with my son and decided I needed protection :-)


Welcome aboard Lee!

Man, I would've been looking over my shoulder the whole way back and not dawdling either. I sure as heck wouldn't have been taking the berries back with me. ;)

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