Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby Hoot » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:10 am

Well, the operational range of the Barnes 200gr XPB keeps shrinking. Not because of lack of velocity, but due to lack of expansion in milk jugs filled with water.

As already reported, using reduced loads to simulate reduced velocities encountered at longer ranges, they failed to expand at simulated 300 and 250 yards, penetrating and exiting all 7 jugs, never to be found. At my last outing on Wednesday, doing work on one of the other calibers I'm experimenting with (6.5 Grendel), I took along my 200 yard Barnes XPB simulation round as well as one loaded with a Hornady 200gr FTX as a control. This time, I set up 9 jugs, hoping to capture the Barnes for a post mortem examination, if it once again made it through all 7 jugs.

It worked! The Barnes came to rest in the 7th jug, having imparted hydraulic damage consistent with a bullet traveling that fast in the first two jugs just like my first two outings and boring rather cleanly through the remaining 4 and coming to rest in number 7 with almost enough energy to break though it's offside wall as well. At first glance, the recovered bullet looked like it had never been shot, save the rifling engraving, but close examination revealed an ever so slight splitting just starting a few hundredths of an inch down the very tip.

Image

The control Hornady 200gr FTX, one of the blems I recently got for a steal from Midway, performed much more admirably and made me wish I had included it in the failed 250 and 300 yard simulations previously. it's final weight was 154gr for a net retention of 77%. Not unlike the results obtained in my tests last year chronicled in the FTX Bullet Comparison thread in this sub-forum. The core and cup separated with the cup stopping in the 4th jug and lead core stopping in the 5th jug. The first two jugs were totally obliterated. The 3rd jug was split on the front side and had a large exit hole on the off side. The 4th jug had a decent entry hole and a smaller exit hole consistent with the separation that occurred and the 5th jug had the smaller entry hole.

Image

While some folks do not care for expanding, jacketed bullets in this caliber, there's no point throwing big bucks at the Barnes when a plain FMJ would suffice. That is, assuming you only intend to shoot creatures at 200 yards and beyond, skipping those closer in. Where I hunt, I would be hard pressed to get a shot at a big northwoods buck beyond 50 yards, let alone 200, so it's still on my short list for this coming deer season, along with the 275s as well. I haven't gotten around to any water shots with them, but I suspect they are tipped the same, having only a longer body behind the hollow point area. I will yet give one of them a try, but at appropriate velocities they reach. Needless to say, traveling slower, their operational range will be shorter. More on that later.

These Barnes water shot tests have an apparent flaw in how they were conducted though. As some of us have come to realize, QuickLoad's predicted velocities rarely match what we encounter in practice and the 450b is no exception. So far, these reduced and buffered loads have been created using QuickLoad's predicted velocity and have not been fact checked across a chrony. That was an oversight by me and the next time out, I intend to check them. That could be a game changer WRT these water shot results. If they are traveling slower, or faster than predicted, we will need to adjust the predicted distance in the comparisons so far and I will make that right in a subsequent thread. It should be a linear transfer of the curve though. 300 being 350, 250 being 300, 200 being 250, etc.

Tomorrow, we start tearing down the rifle range superstructure for rebuilding the following weekend. The range may be usable in between the weekends, but I'm not a big fan of stopping there after work since the setup and knockdown time for my equipment eats up almost all the available time I have before I have to pick up the Mrs from the Park-N-Ride. Nevertheless, I will endeavor to get those loads across a chrony ASAP.

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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby wildcatter » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:43 pm

Way-to-go-Hoot, as usual your data is invaluable. I to have been doing, what I call "Relative, Penetration Test". And now I don't need to slow some down, for the 300yd tests, cause you've already done it, of course we have to know what the real speeds were, but you're all over that.

Your 250gr FTX tests, were the bullets slowed down, do simulate our mythological 300yd distance? The results you got look like mine at fifteen feet, using factory loadings..

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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:12 pm

I gotta admit I'm new to the 450 Bushmaster performance, but after a water shot today with the MagTech 230 Gr FMJ, and another attempt to punch a hole in 3/8" steel plate with the same, maybe, for the steel punch, I need the Barnes. While the 230 Gr. FMJ didn't fare much better than the factory round in 3/8" steel, it actually held together and the boys recovered the bullet. It still weighed 147 grains. The FMJ in the water shot was a real eye opener. Not gonna say anything else. Stay tuned for a very cool video.
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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby Siringo » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:16 pm

Hoot -- any chance that the plastic from the milk jug temporarily plugged the hollow point??? I am always concerned about the open tip bullets plugging with hide, bone, tigs, ect and not opening up.
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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby Hoot » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:25 am

Siringo wrote:Hoot -- any chance that the plastic from the milk jug temporarily plugged the hollow point??? I am always concerned about the open tip bullets plugging with hide, bone, tigs, ect and not opening up.


No, the bullet in the picture was clear of any debris. Don't lose sight of the fact that these are solid copped not thin copper skin over lead. They just need a specific amount of hydraulic pressure to initiate expansion while they're pointy and low in drag and once it begins, with the sudden increase in surface area, it take a lot less to continue, which is good because at the same time the bullet is quickly decelerating.

This will be more apparent when I get some free time to photo-document and write up the experiments I did Monday after work. I have a series of bullets with their petals in various states of deployment, along with the exact velocity they were traveling at when they hit the jugs.

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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby Hoot » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:21 pm

wildcatter wrote:Way-to-go-Hoot, as usual your data is invaluable. I to have been doing, what I call "Relative, Penetration Test". And now I don't need to slow some down, for the 300yd tests, cause you've already done it, of course we have to know what the real speeds were, but you're all over that.

Your 250gr FTX tests, were the bullets slowed down, do simulate our mythological 300yd distance? The results you got look like mine at fifteen feet, using factory loadings..

..t


Tim, if you mean the two pictures a few posts back, that was a 200gr FTX slowed down to 1000 fps. If you meant the 250 FTX in the FTX Bullet Comparison thread from last year, that was 2200 fps about 15 feet from the muzzle.

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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby wildcatter » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:01 am

Hoot wrote:
wildcatter wrote:Way-to-go-Hoot, as usual your data is invaluable. I to have been doing, what I call "Relative, Penetration Test". And now I don't need to slow some down, for the 300yd tests, cause you've already done it, of course we have to know what the real speeds were, but you're all over that.

Your 250gr FTX tests, were the bullets slowed down, do simulate our mythological 300yd distance? The results you got look like mine at fifteen feet, using factory loadings..

..t


Tim, if you mean the two pictures a few posts back, that was a 200gr FTX slowed down to 1000 fps. If you meant the 250 FTX in the FTX Bullet Comparison thread from last year, that was 2200 fps about 15 feet from the muzzle.

Hoot


I meant, a couple of times you went through 7 jugs and didn't have, say ten, in order to capture the bullet..t
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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby Hoot » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:36 am

wildcatter wrote:
Hoot wrote:
wildcatter wrote:Way-to-go-Hoot, as usual your data is invaluable. I to have been doing, what I call "Relative, Penetration Test". And now I don't need to slow some down, for the 300yd tests, cause you've already done it, of course we have to know what the real speeds were, but you're all over that.

Your 250gr FTX tests, were the bullets slowed down, do simulate our mythological 300yd distance? The results you got look like mine at fifteen feet, using factory loadings..

..t


Tim, if you mean the two pictures a few posts back, that was a 200gr FTX slowed down to 1000 fps. If you meant the 250 FTX in the FTX Bullet Comparison thread from last year, that was 2200 fps about 15 feet from the muzzle.

Hoot


I meant, a couple of times you went through 7 jugs and didn't have, say ten, in order to capture the bullet..t


I don't recall an XTP or FTX bullet ever getting away from over-penetration, certainly never through 7 jugs. They're much more reliable at expanding than the XPB's are. I have had a time or two where FTX's veered off course around the 4th or 5th jug and punched out the side, escaping to who knows where. I didn't mention it, but I've also had XPBs veer off course, exit stage left and get lost as well.

At some point, it gets old, chasing down empty jugs, washing out the skank, filling them, capping them, loading them up in the truck, unloading them at the range (under duress), setting them up, shooting and having several groups of 5, 6, or more ruined by errant traveling bullets or over-penetrating ones and having to do it all over again. Not to mention, having to get rid of the carcasses on recycling day. You should see the looks I get from the recycling workers when they pick them up and see the bullet holes and damage.

I could build a large platform to line them up 4 wide by 10 deep and reduce the ones that get away, but I don't have a personal assistant or two to help me, so it's very labor intensive. If I could step out of my back door and do this (hint-hint), without breaking several laws and having my idiot neighbor on my north side call 911, this would actually be more fun than another job, which I already have several of.

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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby wildcatter » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:44 am

10-4 on that getting old, stuff. I recently let my fingers do the walking and found a milk bottling company about an hours drive from me. They donated 3 bags of jugs (yup, like in free, the plant manager is a shooter), with caps, for a total of 144 jugs. Now I know you gotta have a bottling outfit somewhere near you, cause they can't transport milk far or they will experience spoiling..

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Re: Range Report: Barnes XPB [Mission Aborted]

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:18 am

Just a question here. (so I can know what size marbles we are all playing with in regards to water shots), it seems we are doing water shots and looking at two factors. Bullet penetration, (Depth), and bullet performance, (expansion). Which of these two factors is the key indicator in how our loads are performing? I am asking because the answer to the question may lead us in a direction to where we can engineer a better way to capture and record our results. I have already formed an opinion on this, but I am going to keep it to myself so as not to influence other opinions. I also have a few ideas on building a better milk jug. LOL.
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